.7 trillion dollars. now's the time to imagine how we grow the economy, to help feed the economic recovery, and that growth will help reduce the debt. the conversation with the president was about that bigger frame, and how we think about it. and then imagining the suffering that everybody is seeing all across this country, how can we restore the american middle class if we continue to cut programs that support people staying either in the middle class or not falling from it. >> do you believe some form of entitlement reform has to be part of a "grand bargain," a large down payment of paying down the debt? >> i reject the notion of entitlement. i think these are guaranteed social insurance programs of this country committed to our elders and long time ago. we just had a national debate in the country where there were two different visions, one that said, you're on your own, and another that said we are in this together. the way that we think about medicare, medicaid, and social security has to be in the context of whether we're going to create jobs of people can support their families on.